Joab Disobeying David's Census and Obedience in Orthodoxy

I made the following comment on the passage in 1 Chronicles 21:6:

But he did not count Levi and Benjamin among them, for the king's word was painful to Joab. Joab was obedient to David's command to take a census of the people, but knew this was a bad idea. Similarly, we are to live in obedience, unless asked to do something against the Gospel commands. What are the Gospel commands: love the Lord your God with all your soul and all your mind and all your strength and love your neighbor as yourself.

Obedience, unless that obedience is not in love. Obedience is difficult, especially for us independent Americans. I often think of a particular passage in St. Silouan's biography (paraphrased)... There are two ways to find God's will. Simply obeying our spiritual father is simple and foolproof (because if it is wrong, the responsibility is on the spiritual father). The other way, to seek God in prayer and discern for ourselves, is perfectly acceptable, but much more difficult and far from foolproof.

In response to those comments, a friend asked:

...1. From what you've shared, it seems to me that you are advising that we be like Joab, and obey the Davids in our lives, even if the David in our life is doing a very "bad idea" (that we think is wrong). Is that what you are implying?

2. I disagree that David's action was a mere "bad idea". It seems to me, from reading the biblical text, that David did no mere "bad idea" by taking the census. David decided to commit a major sin and ordered Joab to obey him in doing sin. We know from 1 Chron 21:1 that "Satan stood against Israel and moved David to number Israel" (although it is true that in 2 Kgs it says that the Lord, in his anger, told David to do it.) At any rate, we know that David himself repents after the deed, weeping, saying, "I sinned greatly in what I did. But I pray, O Lord, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly." And the Lord severely punished David and the people for David's sin. Why do you think David's action and command was just a "bad idea"?

3. You wrote, " (because if it is wrong, the responsibility is on the spiritual father)" To me this sounds like you are saying that individuals will not be responsible before God for their sinful actions, if they obeyed someone in a position of spiritual authority, saying to God "Oh, my spiritual Father told me to do it, so I did it" (even though my conscience disagreed). Is this what you are saying/teaching? That when I stand before God, for judgment, I can use as an excuse "My spiritual father told me to do it?" I have heard this before, as sound spiritual teaching... but I don't see it in the Scriptures, and I can't actually find in the Church Fathers. Does the Orthodox Church teach this outside of monasticism? Will you please explain a little more why you believe this to be sound spiritual teaching? And...the part in St. Silouan's teaching, which kind of spiritual father is he talking about?

Those are good and honest questions. I have seen plenty of Orthodox Christians struggle with these very same issues. Each of these questions have books written in response, but I will try to get to the heart of what I meant in the initial comment.

1. Concerning David's census. Joab clearly pushed back from the beginning. He obeyed, though...mostly. And the sin was David's (which speaks to the later point of the responsibility being on the spiritual father). It seems Joab's conscience compelled him to resist in the end, though. He did not complete the census, and there is no mention of disobedience on his part.

2. Concerning the census sin itself. The Scriptures are far from clear about what made this census wrong. Well, better said, there is actually no confusion in the Scriptures, but it is difficult to understand the implication thousands of years later. So, partially, my use of the word "bad idea" was only to avoid the conversation of what about this was a sin; I picked the safe and conservative "bad idea". God commanded the census with Moses; here we see David as the one initiating the count. In Moses's census, there was clear direction to not count the Levites; here not only does David want the Levites counted, but it is significant that Joab, in not fulfilling the count, leaves out the Levites.

3. Concerning obedience and judgment. Quotes from St. Sophrony's biography "St. Silouan the Athonite"..."There are various ways of acquiring this knowledge of God's will. One is through the word of God--through the commandments of Christ. But the Gospel commandments for all their perfection--or rather, by virtue of their perfection--express the will of God in its over-all, ultimate sense, whereas man in his everyday life is confronted with an endless complexity of situations, and very often does not see what to do to comply with God's will" (77). Summary: one way to determine God's will is seek it ourselves, but the book goes on to explain how fraught with difficulty that is. "In the Church another course lies open to us--to seek out and obey the counsels of a spiritual father...When a father-confessor answers a question in the performance of his ministry [that is, in Confession] he is at that moment untouched by the passion influencing his inquirer, and so can see more clearly, and is more easily accessible to the action of God's grace. A spiritual confessor's reply will usually bear the imprint of imperfection...notwithstanding its inadequacy, the spiritual instruction, if accepted with faith and effectively heeded, will always lead to an increase of good" (79). Summary: the second way is to obey our spiritual father. And an excellent summary of St. Silouan's (and St. Sophrony's) teaching of the responsibility of those actions, quoting the Higoumen, after handing out a particularly difficult obedience, "'Father, remember, God does not judge twice, so when you do something in obedience to me, it is I who will be judged by God but you will not be called to account" (81). Then, "This is the way of faith, discerned and confirmed in the millennial experience of the Church" (81). This is by no means unique to saints Silouan and Sophrony, for we know that teachers "shall receive a stricter judgment" (James 3:1).

3-extra. When to disobey. Back to what I originally wrote, when living in obedience, we obey, unless our conscience (that is, the Holy Spirit working within us) determines it contradicts Gospel commands. And those Gospel commands are quite broad: love the Lord your God, love your neighbor. But that takes us back to St. Silouan's first option of finding God's will on our own: the downside is that finding our own way is more difficult. We are still left with the two ways to find God's will. Can we break an obedience? Yes, but then we are taking full responsibility for the consequences and trusting completely in our own ability to determine the will of God. In some circumstances, that may well be the best (or only) option we have, though.

4. Concerning the spiritual father. Here is my understanding of the spiritual father. Speaking in a simple sense of the term "spiritual father", we all need a spiritual father, someone to guide us in the spiritual life, which for the majority of Orthodox Christians in parishes out there, is the parish priest. More specifically, though, in speaking of distinguishing that term from elder, we can speak of a "spiritual father" as one of three "levels" of relationship with a priest: father-confessor, spiritual father, and elder. And that relationship is defined and decided by the spiritual child, not the priest. It is acceptable to go to a priest only for confession, that is to not seek spiritual advice from that priest. One step deeper, more than merely confessing, is to seek spiritual advice from the priest. This is a spiritual father. In this relationship, it would be appropriate to ask for blessings for various...well, whatever it would be appropriate to ask a blessing for. Then, the third level is the elder. The elder is not only confessor and spiritual father, but the spiritual child lives in a much more strict obedience to an elder. This is almost always in a monastic setting. Again, though, it is the choice of the spiritual child for someone to be their elder; it is not for the elder to proclaim eldership over the spiritual child.

4-extra. Another source on elders. From "Elder Ambrose of Optina" by Fr. Sergius Chetverikov. "In monasteries, father-confessors are appointed by the higher authorities from among those individuals who have earned such an appointment by their experience, and, finally, by their age. Elders are not appointed. The choice of an elder is a voluntary matter. The elder is such unofficially" (136).